3800 Series 2 Crank But No Start

This document is not intended to be an all-encompassing how-to for running 11's. 77 @ 121 mph W/ a good tune. If any of the above signals goes missing, your 3. US $ 600 (CHINA) 1000 Watt Portable Mini Electric Start 220v Portable Inverter. I've replaced the usual suspects, tune-up-wise and both start/run fine above 50 degrees. The crank sensor contains two hall effect sensors that sends two signals to the engine computer. The patient is a 96 Intl 4700, with a t444e @ 175hp. SERIES 3211, 3364, 3466, 3500, 3800, AND 3900(EXCEPT FIG. While the stroke for the 3. 8L - No Crank No Start Fix - Pontiac Buick Chevrolet Chevy Oldsmobile - Duration: 4:29. After that the cars security light flashes and the car will not crank. No codes on computer (Wish it was a '96). Replace crank sensor,fuel pump checked fuel injectors,after a few attempts to start,security light is on, will leave it alone for awhile,starts right up. There were several castings including the 478/4781/8134 and 2261 that are all very similar, but the intake ports on the 2261 are slightly different, so we always use them in pairs. I have a Park Avenue with 165,000 miles. Has new ignition module, all three coils packs are new, as well as MAF MAP,battery,plugs and wires. The puller uses 3 real small bolts. Overview and Personal Comments. To get an indirect indication of this, check for spark at the. NRMA man thought it was the coil, mechanic said not. A crank sensor relays information to the vehicle's computer, referencing how fast the engine is running, but more importantly the position of the crankshaft and the cylinder. 1995- 2004, 3800 Intake Manifold Coolant Leak Cheap Fix! V6 Engine (VIN K - RPO L36) 3800 Series II w/ Plastic Intake Manifold IF your problem is coolant going directly into the engine, by ANY the indicators below. NO coolant in oil. Bears Leak 2,055 views. Obviously the more you cut it the weaker it gets. Uncut is very tough. 8" (97 mm), the engine architecture changed dramatically. Sometimes the fuel rail will not hold pressure, the system will leak down. 0 files do not come with any tech or programming support for changes or issues outside 1. But i am pretty sure you need the puller still. I'm not sure if your series 3 has a sub-harness connector like the Series 2 but this sub-harness connector starts near the "firewall side" fuel rail and splits off to feed the ICM, CRANK SENSOR & CAM SENSOR. GM's 3800 engine is a 3. It will not restart until the engine compartment cools. Page 3 of 3: How to Troubleshoot a No Start (GM 3. · White exhaust steam / smoke · Losing Coolant and engine running poorly, with No visible leaks. •1995-’96 VIN K OR VIN 1 SUPERCHARGED The all new Series II 3800 was used for most of the naturally aspirated applications in ’95 and for all the supercharged applications beginning in ’96. First, it can be stuck at a value above 80%, even when the acceleration pedal is not depressed. 2-5-12 2003 Alero will crank, but not start when temp is below 50 and cold outside. This confirmed that the enitre circuit was. Engine Cranks But Won't Start There are a variety of possible causes for a no start, but one of the most common with the 3800 engine is a bad crankshaft position (CKP) sensor or a bad ignition control module (ICM). Hi guys I've an answer to you, I've bought an AMD64 X2 5600+ processor to replace my "old" amd64 x2 3800+ into a MSI k9n sli platinum MB, the question is, should I reformat my HD? or there's no problems at all where I replace it? the system will crash? or just Windows vista ultimate 32bits will recognize and install the new processor keepin' stable the system?. I have a Park Avenue with 165,000 miles. Girlfriends car. NEED HELP Identifying this part, the engine is a 3800, series 2, in a 2002 Pontiac Bonnyville. If you have a late model GM vehicle and turn the key only to hear nothing, you'll most likely think you have a dead battery—and you may. Installed new fuel pump checked fuel relay. S10 and camaro 700R4s have the starter on the passenger side, but from my research, you may be able to use a lower tranny cover from a 95-98 3800 4L60E to make the starter mount on the driver side or make your own cover. The front sensor is rated at 8. Thread author I have a 2005 Buick allure and let the car sit for 2 weeks and now it just cranks and won. A warm battery will crank your Kubota over like a hot day in July! Park in a heated garage if possible, if not, even an unheated shed offers a degree of protection. 2000 International 4700 Crank no Start Discussion in 'Heavy job alerts and other career information to the number I provided. A crank sensor relays information to the vehicle's computer, referencing how fast the engine is running, but more importantly the position of the crankshaft and the cylinder. now it won't start again. Thread author I have a 2005 Buick allure and let the car sit for 2 weeks and now it just cranks and won. Well the 3800 will take a lot of abuse without maintenace. Take a trip into an upgraded, more organized inbox. Read DIY Guide: How to replace the spark plugs on a Mercedes-Benz. Notes: The photos are generally, but not necessarily, in order of assembly. Won't start_no spark-new crank sensor- 50 lb. We have had the bus 2 years, has always been trouble free- starts at -2 below runs great no smoke 200K, allsion 3060. Chuck-mobiles since 1998. 5 adapter to 1/4”npt and applied air to the icp port. The crank sensor contains two hall effect sensors that sends two signals to the engine computer. If you have a late model GM vehicle and turn the key only to hear nothing, you’ll most likely think you have a dead battery—and you may. First it would only start on the 2nd try for quite a while. Think of it as a mid-point for troubleshooting the ignition system. Bleeding to Top of Injectors If your Kubota fails to start, then you’ll need to bleed the lines all the way to the top of the injectors themselves. I've replaced the usual suspects, tune-up-wise and both start/run fine above 50 degrees. I now just rest my foot on the gas and press it slightly the second that it fires. Then my car died. 2 weeks later I filled the tank and mower would crank but would not start. The vehicles covered by the GM engine recall were outfitted with the 3800 Series II design, manufactured between 1995 and 2004. After hours of reading and researching. My 1997 Pontiac Firebird 3800 fires up great in the morning, but once it is up to temp it has to be started twice (crank the key, no fire, crank again, start up but sometimes rough). You can sit & try to crank it repeatedly & it will never start up. 4 in (86 mm), and the bore remained at 3. Hopefully, this will help elevate. If you'd like to find out more about the does not crank condition, I recommend this article: How To Test A Does Not Crank. Dealer had to bypass auto choke. 2004 Buick Lesabre Custom. i have replaced fuel pump-pressure was 20 psi when key was in the (on) position. When you turn the key it will sometimes fire right away and then die or you’ll have to turn it over for a few seconds. Turns over, but wIll not start - New computer. This shed some light on the If the engine does not crank,then check the battery. The crank sensor contains two hall effect sensors that sends two signals to the engine computer. I had done this previously but with undercoat, and had laid down clear plastic to attempt to keep the water off of the floor (this did not work :roll: ) Stage Four: engine, trans, suspension, and front axle. That seems odd to me, because there's no adjustment slot on this new sensor- it looks like it goes on one way only- no slider adjustment. replaced coil packs still no spark. why waste the time and money on a series 1 , just start with a series 2 and no heads pistons rods or cranks You can get the series II 3800 n/a or s/c from. When you turn the Key to start the engine, the ignition control module gets power (12 Volts) and Ground. If in doubt, take the crank to a machine shop and have it checked. S10 and camaro 700R4s have the starter on the passenger side, but from my research, you may be able to use a lower tranny cover from a 95-98 3800 4L60E to make the starter mount on the driver side or make your own cover. com - April 18, 2017 Overview: This guide is intended for 3800 (particularly the Supercharged Series II [L67] and Series III [L32]) owners who are new to modifying their car for performance. 8L V6 (3800) Cranks But , NO START Solution. though I found the issue with the gray lead to the fuel cut off solenoid partially melted to the motor heat shield but no luck. Then I shut it off and now it's been 2 days since it was last turned on. The cam sensor (if equipped). GM's 3800 engine is a 3. Unplugge plug wire, #5 and # ***** didnt see any arc. NZ Music Month has a real thermotron s 1. GM does not provide a fuel volume test spec but, as a rule, a good pump should deliver about a quart of fuel in 30 seconds. 8L Buick Engine Through a brief search i stumbled apon an article that explains the difference. But let me start at the beginning. Compact OHV design runs cooler and cleaner, delivering more power, longer engine life and improved fuel economy. Replace crank sensor,fuel pump checked fuel injectors,after a few attempts to start,security light is on, will leave it alone for awhile,starts right up. These transmissions are fairly rare as they were only produced for a few years in the Chevy S10 and Camaro with the 2. i have a 1998 thomas bus wih an international 3800 series chassis. This motor comes in a normally aspirated version (L36) and a Supercharged version (L67), I am going to concentrate on the L67 since it is the supercharger that makes this motor so special. I'm wanting to use the HP EFI on a GM 3800 V6 Series 2 engine in a swap vehicle. Car was driving fine. so i have instrument lights and gauges. 9l - $3,850. Bleeding to Top of Injectors If your Kubota fails to start, then you’ll need to bleed the lines all the way to the top of the injectors themselves. No Activity follows the misadventures of two low-ranking cops who spend way too much time together. The crank sensor would absorb heat when the engine was shut off, go open and fail to produce a signal when the engine was cranked. Well, it stopped running, cranks, but no sputtering, spark, nothing. I have a set of crank shutter wheels, and crank sensor from a 94 3800 on my GN. The crank sensor contains two hall effect sensors that sends two signals to the engine computer. Long-life OHV design runs cooler and cleaner to deliver more power, longer engine life and improved fuel economy. They could take some valve notching, no prob and work with this crank idea, if you wanted to pay someone to turn the crank and buff it. today im going to change the spark plugs and wires and see if that does the job. The vehicles covered by the GM engine recall were outfitted with the 3800 Series II design, manufactured between 1995 and 2004. Well the 3800 will take a lot of abuse without maintenace. Wouldn't turn over. But let me start at the beginning. The new crank had 6-throws @ 60. They were identified in two phases. The shop kept our car for 2 weeks and literally butchered every part trying to find the problem. I bought a used 2008 lacross cxl, with a 3800 Series III engine. Love your website. Buick 3800 crank position sensor? How do you change the crank position sensor on a 1998 Grand Prix GT 3800 series II? What would cause a buick 3800 to not start after it has warmed up?. 8 series 2 supercharged and I need help crank but won't start 2 Answers. If engine cranks, install the breakout box on the X3 connector (6007 connector for CEC). It will happen 1 day and give me trouble for 15 minutes and then 5 days will go by before it happens. Neighbor ask if he could take a look. This troubleshooting guide is intented to help identify and repair engine starting and running problems and engine lubrication system problems. I replaced fuel relay, and replaced battery. The Series II was available supercharged in FWD applications. Spamming ignition works. These transmissions are fairly rare as they were only produced for a few years in the Chevy S10 and Camaro with the 2. The following is a list of problem symptoms discussed in this guide: Engine Will Not Rotate; Engine Will Rotate But Will Not Start (Fire) Engine Is Difficult To Start When Cold. MY old 3800 s-10 ran a 13. Now it cranks but no start sometimes. what could be cause of this?. Currently not getting a CEL but I did go to O'reilly's yesterday and had it scanned. GM does not provide a fuel volume test spec but, as a rule, a good pump should deliver about a quart of fuel in 30 seconds. Had it hauled to my dads garage by AAA. At times when you turn the key to the "Start" position nothing happens. Would not start after running great for two weeks following a replacement of the Mass Air Flow sensor and the crank sensor. It;s getting fuel. Buick LeSabre Engine Stalling Due to Mass Air Flow/Crankshaft Position Sensor Failure - 266 reports. The problem occurs under all conditions, cold start, hot start, weather doesn't play a factor. Failure to start or requiring repeated attempts to start may point to ignition and starter systems. The following is a list of problem symptoms discussed in this guide: Engine Will Not Rotate; Engine Will Rotate But Will Not Start (Fire) Engine Is Difficult To Start When Cold. everyone said it was a security issue. He managed to get it where he was going and parked it. 2-5-12 2003 Alero will crank, but not start when temp is below 50 and cold outside. Wellington Music: A Trip Through the Archives. I replaced the ign module and it worked for 5 weeks. Found a 3800 series 2 motor out of a 2003 Chevy impala. Safely Modding Your 3800 For Dummies. Finally got where it would not start at all. That engine has a 18x crank reluctor and 1x cam. Tried different battery, still no crank. My 1997 Pontiac Firebird 3800 fires up great in the morning, but once it is up to temp it has to be started twice (crank the key, no fire, crank again, start up but sometimes rough). i know its getting fuel because i can smell it after trying to start it. 8 litre) found in the Bonneville SSEi and Grand Prix GTP. This is a Pass-key II system. 1997 Buick 3800 Series II - VERY hard to start below 20 Degrees Fahrenheit I have a 97 Buick LeSabre 3800 Series II 105k miles. Are you having trouble starting it? Assuming you have a good strong battery with a MINIMUM of 850-1000 CCA try this start technique on that cold blooded Kubota! Don’t glow the plugs, but crank the tractor over for 15-20 seconds until it starts to blow white smoke. Still need to get the PCM programmed. My car has 87000 miles. Than they said Coil packs so i installed the packs as well and still no reaction. It takes a while to bring Ivelisse back to the land of the living, but soon the action resumes. replaced coil packs still no spark. My o4 grand prix will not start. 8L Ignition Control Module and Crank (3X, 18X) Sensor Test. Fresh plugs and wires. (no previous issues in the past year) So, this is a doozy and it's got my dad and me STUMPED! driving back to work after lunch about half a mile away the car starts flashing the CEL and starts missing like crazy. Turned out there was a misfire on cylinder 4. Oct 11, 2017 #2. The 96 is a 3800 Series II with different MAF sensor, fuel line attachments, fuel injectors and. If you have a no-start condition because there’s no fuel, the first check would be fuel pressure. They could take some valve notching, no prob and work with this crank idea, if you wanted to pay someone to turn the crank and buff it. Hey all, I am in a tough spot right now. I have all the small items needed to convert this engine to Series II. You do this by grounding the plug on the head of the engine and Dewalt Pressure Washers. the bus was idling and then just stopped dead. The Buick Park Avenue is a full-size car built by Buick. This article concentrates on the no start condition. On a Series II 3800 engine, fuel pressure should be 48 to 55 psi with the key on and engine off. Turns over, but wIll not start - New computer. Yes you can do this, it would be a tad tricky, but I have several friends who have Series III supercharged 3. I have a set of crank shutter wheels, and crank sensor from a 94 3800 on my GN. GM 3800 Service Tips, Techniques, and Advice. Since it is a V6, do you think I can set the crank for 1 pulse/fire, and take off the extra 12 trigger teeth from the reluctor?. I have all the small items needed to convert this engine to Series II. 8 liter engine remained at 3. They work with existing standard cylinder heads and. COME makes a billet crank for more power. •1995-’08 VIN K/2 (NATURALLY-ASPIRATED) The Series II engines got all new heads that had heart-shaped chambers, bigger intake ports and cast roller rockers. 04-05 supercharged Monte SS's and 04-05 Impala SS's have compatible parts too. ZZPerformance's integrated kits include everything needed for putting a supercharger on a normally aspirated L36 Buick V6 3800 Series II. Sounds sweet, has navy tag on dash. installed feul pump,fuses. Select your program and start prospecting for gold!ORX Includes the Best Loved Features of the Popular XP DEUS - Choose from 2 Gold Program, 2 Coin Programs and 2 User Customizable Programs. Which they all considered great deals and that the engine 'will be gone shortly. Under the slogan of 'For Earth, For Life,' Kubota works on challenges in the fields of food, water, and the environment on a global scale. The recall for the non-supercharged V6 is to remove the front. The pcv valve is not visible on a 3800 series II engine, which I presume you have in your Grand Prix, because it is located under the MAP sensor. Grand prix 3. This article concentrates on the no start condition. After that the cars security light flashes and the car will not crank. Since it is a V6, do you think I can set the crank for 1 pulse/fire, and take off the extra 12 trigger teeth from the reluctor?. The back ground is this. I had crankshaft sensor replaced as well as the serpentine belt. However, it has no s. When it does this it will restart but shudders and dies if you try to accelerate. Think of it as a mid-point for troubleshooting the ignition system. Turns over, but wIll not start - New computer. I guess really my question would be how can i reset the security system. I picked it up from a salvage yard in Wisconsin. The problem: the car runs perfectly with no issues until seemingly totally at random it sputters and stalls out. Failure to start or requiring repeated attempts to start may point to ignition and starter systems. The Buick 231 cu. This is a very low cost upgrade, and in the world of mass production, most cranks do not come with a true polished finish. have replaced crankshaft position sensor, cam sensor, tested ICM replaced wiring harness from icm to crank to cam. Installed new fuel pump checked fuel relay. 8L V-6 fuel pump test. I can tell the fuel pump is not running. Fuel pump test. 1994 bonniville 3800 engine problem cranking problem. Can anyone offer me advice about my 2000' Pontiac Grand Prix GT??? (3800 V6 engine) For over 9 months now I have been battling with 2 issues The 1ST issue is the can randomly WILL NOT start. If you have a no-start condition because there's no fuel, the first check would be fuel pressure. Replaced starter and made sure battery was fully charged. I have a 2000 Grand Prix with the 3800 Series II non-supercharged that has an intermittent no-crank issue. I'm also building a Quad 4 right now for my 92 GTZ, a stroker 2. com FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases. Fuel pump was replaced by shop 2x in past 2 weeks. i HAVE AN MAZDA MX6 AND IT WILL NOT START THERE IS NO SPARK AND NO FUEL COMING TROUGH WHAT by RIAAN (3/6/2007) my 93 plymouth voyger will run for about 1/2 hr then it will shut down by dottie (3/26/2007) how much gear oil do i put in a 1999 daewoo lanos 1. It is located behind the harmonic balancer. Installed new fuel pump checked fuel relay. You are talking about 7,000 to finish this kind of project. Misfire developes after engine warms up; Engine suddenly died; Frustration is kicking in; Possible Bad TCC; knocking during acceleration; cruise control motor; P0171 ltft is 16 at idle. 86mm Stroker Billet Cranks for Pontiac 3. Are you saying it cranks good but won't start or it won't even crank? 2003 Chevy Monte Carlo Opps. Safely Modding Your 3800 For Dummies. So after I put everything back together the car started right up, I let it run for 15 minutes. Than they said Coil packs so i installed the packs as well and still no reaction. Chuck-mobiles since 1998. This is why most machine shops have a machine to do this. I'm having issues setting up the trigger angle on the above mentioned engine. Originally out of a turbo berlina. What I have done thus far is: - Tested fuel pump, I have 50psi at prime, and around 42-45 at key crank. The crank sensor contains two hall effect sensors that sends two signals to the engine computer. Solenoid failed and for months had issues getting the unit to crank until it refused to start at all. Does not start. Were using a stock standard L67 crank and stock block (forged pistons and rods) to make around 600-650rwhp with no problems. At a dealership you are looking around 2 hours of labor at what ever rate they charge. I had the installed. 3800 series 2 Base dyno numbers My 3800 SC Series II (around 20,000 miles on it) dynoed at around 300 ft lbs of torque and 258 HP at the wheels. com - April 18, 2017 Overview: This guide is intended for 3800 (particularly the Supercharged Series II [L67] and Series III [L32]) owners who are new to modifying their car for performance. 8L seemed like the perfect candidate for our high-boost 5. Bugger of it is they wont throw a dam code for it for some reason. everyone said it was a security issue. 8L Ignition Control Module and Crank (3X, 18X) Sensor Test. It would start up for about 1-2 seconds (smoothly) and then die as if it. Has new ignition module, all three coils packs are new, as well as MAF MAP,battery,plugs and wires. the bus was idling and then just stopped dead. the mechanic says my head gasket could be bad or that my engine block could be cracked. It cranked but did not fire at all. We took alot of the old R&D used on the series I 3800 blocks, ended up teardropping the other side of the main journals, crosdrilled and chamfered the crank and also added in a extra oil feed hole. I was not proposing using a 3-second burst of starting fluid that could cause damage upon start-up. 8L Buick Engine Through a brief search i stumbled apon an article that explains the difference. We mostly see the new style 3800 series 2. Turn the ignition key to the "on" position but *do not* crank the engine to start yet. Fuel pump was replaced by shop 2x in past 2 weeks. Talk:Buick V6 engine I recently have torn down both series 2 and series 3 3800's, they are absolutely 100% 90 degree v6's. If engine cranks, install the breakout box on the X3 connector (6007 connector for CEC). They all have the GM 3. I have been a Honda motorcycle mechanic for a little over 15 years and the number one cause that a generator will not start, is gummed up carburetor. I have a 1996 Oldsmobile Regency 98 3800 Series 2. the bus was idling and then just stopped dead. I replaced fuel relay, and replaced battery. I'm having issues setting up the trigger angle on the above mentioned engine. My 1997 Pontiac Firebird 3800 fires up great in the morning, but once it is up to temp it has to be started twice (crank the key, no fire, crank again, start up but sometimes rough). 8 liter engine remained at 3. High Output Alternators built right in the USA. 3 Cranks but no start/spark?? 3800 Stall torque converter. No codes on computer (Wish it was a '96). US $ 600 (CHINA) 1000 Watt Portable Mini Electric Start 220v Portable Inverter. Replied by benzrider85 on topic GM 3800 crank, but no start Alright so I thought I posted back here, but even though I'm six months late I figured I'd post my findings on this. I have a 199 Pontiac Bonniville with 3800 series II engine. I assumed I fouled something up with the new parts. i have replaced fuel pump-pressure was 20 psi when key was in the (on) position. Then I shut it off and now it's been 2 days since it was last turned on. I could really use some help. 8 2002 Buick Spark plugs black now likes you start runs for a second then On a 3800 V6, Series II, VIN K, does. Crank over the engine for 10-15 seconds, close the fuel bleed valve and attempt to start the tractor as you would normally do (don’t forget to preheat your glow plugs). 3l w/ headers, exhaust, and a tune w/several other mods as well. Will do the same thing every cold morning. The problem: the car runs perfectly with no issues until seemingly totally at random it sputters and stalls out. 04-05 supercharged Monte SS's and 04-05 Impala SS's have compatible parts too. installed feul pump,fuses. 8" (97 mm), the engine architecture changed dramatically. Had to buy a new ignition. She turned it off after getting home the other day and it will no start up again. Well the 3800 will take a lot of abuse without maintenace. But dont know that for sure, i just cant find alot of information on my engine. As for the idle control valve, if the valve were completely closed, the engine may not start. Testing a Cranks but does Not Start Condition on your GM 4. If you store your own fuel, make sure it has been treated with an extender and it does not hurt to use a little cetane booster. Besides,I'm not sure if I want to SC or not. ' Frankly, I know the 3800 series is a great engine (I've owned a 3800 Series I), but a car with 97k on the body, I'm not willing to spend $800 on a motor with 160k+ miles on it. 8L engine block. ZZPerformance’s integrated kits include everything needed for putting a supercharger on a normally aspirated L36 Buick V6 3800 Series II. but, series II is big time improved. What could be wrong if a 1996 Buick LeSabre starts and drives then will not start again? No. Crank polishing: Extends bearing life, reduces oil temp, frees up a slight amount of average horsepower. I can get it to crank, but the engine will not start. Sounds sweet, has navy tag on dash. 1999 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP with the 3. With the help of the disgruntled official, Ivelisse evens the score and decides to have some fun with the sleeping Allysin, taking off her shoes. Learn about this problem, why it occurs, and how to fix it. "Jeff James"wrote > I have a 1998 Olds Intrigue (w/ 75k miles) that has a coolant leak around > the intake manifold (3800 Series II engine). There are two common failures with the TPS sensor. Most Cranks but Does No Start Conditions have their root cause in the Ignition System. This is a discussion on warm/hot start HIGH rev idle/ sticking throttle??3800 within the V6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Since our recent heat wave here in Michiganmy 2000 Grand Prix GT 3800 with 200,000 miles has been acting strange. I have a 2000 buick park avenue 3800 series 2 v6 it will turn over but wont crank. 2002 Grand Prix in our shop with the 3800 in it. It held pressure for a few seconds until it ran the oil out the leak. tap the key forward so as to crank the engine but not starting it. Since the temperature dropped here in mid-Michigan about three weeks ago to between 10 and 20 degrees fahrenheit, my previously good starting/running car has become a nightmare to start. All of a sudden. As the engine cranks, the ignition module receives the crank sensor signal. The inspiration was due to the love of camping, but not sleeping on the ground. Last week it was running just fine. It all seems crystal clear NOW. My car has an automatic transmission. The crank should slide into place easilly and no tapping, pounding, or rotating is needed. It will crank but it will not turn over completely. Drives smooth, and cruises well on the highway. This led me to believe either first 2 coil packs or ignotion control module which i have replaced all the above and still no luck. No codes on computer (Wish it was a '96). I have a 94 oldsmobile regency 98 with the 3800 series 1 engine. The lights don't even dim so it seems there isn't power making it to the starter. This is why most machine shops have a machine to do this.